Eclipse Europa… Too Many Choices…
I was happy to see that Europa was released on-time this morning. However, I was very disappointed to see the confusing download page.
Here are your Java/JEE choices:
- Eclipse IDE for Java Developers - 79 MB
- Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers - 123 MB
- Eclipse Classic - 140 MB
So, I’m ok with there being a Java version and a JEE version considering all Java development isn’t in the JEE world, as some people think. But what makes me crazy is there being an Eclipse “Classic” version. WTF?!?
If Eclipse Classic wasn’t tailored to Java developers I might buy the need for it. The thing is… the Classic version IS for Java developers. So they have an Eclipse IDE for Java Developers and an Eclipse Classic which is for Java developers. How the people in the eclipse org don’t think this will confuse people is a question I’d like answered.
What’s funny is if you look at the Java IDE “info” page you will see them describe it as an IDE for Java developers, with a nice set of features for Java developers, an XML Editor, and the Mylyn plugin. Then you look at what they say about the Classic version. It’s a superior Java editing IDE as well as a platform for building RCP apps. This last point is what really makes me crazy! What I left off my list above is that there is also a pre-built version of Eclipse 3.3 for doing RCP development.
SO WHY THE FRIGGIN’ CLASSIC VERSION? I see it only confusing people and slowing the adoption of Eclipse.
Sorry for this rant. I must have had too much coffee this morning.
June 29th, 2007 at 9:15 am
nice. have another cup!
June 29th, 2007 at 9:21 am
If there is a “classic” version, shouldn’t there be a “modern” version as well?
June 29th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Pete,
I’ve switched to Diet Coke.
June 29th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Roman,
Thanks for stopping by.
The thing is, I bet the modern version would still be missing something. Or, even worse there would be a modern JEE version, and a modern RCP version.
June 29th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
I found your blog because I was also confused by the downloads page. I’m still trying to figure out if Classic contains everything in the Java Developers version (without having to download both to find out).
June 29th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Erik
I kind of agree that there are too many choices. However, when we re-designed the download page we got feedback that people still wanted to keep a link to the old standard download, hence Eclipse Classic.
Reed,
To answer your question, Classic does not contain Mylyn or an XML editor. If you use Eclipse as just a Java IDE, I would recommend using the Java Developer version.
June 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Howdy Ian,
Thx for stopping by and clearing things up. One thing I find odd is that the Classic version is 140 MB and the Java version is 79 MB. The Java version has Mylyn and an XML editor and is tremendously smaller in size then the classic version. Why is the Classic version so large? Is there something there I want to add to the Java version?
Erik
June 29th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Howdy Reed,
Thx for stopping by and it looks like Ian was kind enought to give us some answers.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:14 am
Erik,
The Java Developer package does not contain source code or PDE.
Here is a link to the detailed contents http://www.eclipse.org/epp/content.php.
As a reminder, Classic is the same package as we had previous to Europa.
btw, they is a bug in the Java EE package so we have pulled it down until it gets addressed.
June 30th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Ian,
Thanks for further clarifing the differences between downloads, and for the link. The only thing missing from the link was what goes into the classic version.
I keep hearing and seeing that it was the same as the previous versions, but I’m not sure what that means. It obviously means more then just a Java IDE.
Erik
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:54 am
I completly agree
I too found this blog, because I did not understand what I needed to download?
I thought it was a release of 21 projects together.. so it would all be in 1 download called europa. Oh well…. so now we have 3 choices, and no clear description of what u can and cannot do with each.
The download pages doesn’t say what is in the choices, but lists “Additional Features” can be downloaded… Each download has a different list of features that can be downloaded - So does that mean some features can be downloaded on one distro, but not another?
Ag… ridiculous… Im gonna download eclipse classic now…. lets see whats inside…
Common on Eclipse…
July 2nd, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Very cool, thanks for the feedback — keep it coming!
Dean, I can’t imagine what kind of attention-deficit-disorder a programmer would have to have in order to want all 21 various projects in the Europa release train, but I’d sure like to meet him/her
- Don
July 2nd, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Erik,
Think Eclipse Classic = Eclipse Platform + JDT + PDE + All Source Code. I hope this helps.
Dean,
Thanks for the feedback. We will try to improve the descriptions for each package. If you do want all 21 projects, I would suggest starting with Eclipse Classic or Eclipse for RCP Developer. Then use the update manager to download what you want. Putting all 21 projects into one download would have made it just too big.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Ian,
Thanks a ton for clearing things up.
Erik
July 3rd, 2007 at 8:30 am
It may be too big to have an all in one for normal downloads, but that is what BitTorrent is for.
An all in one would greatly simplify the setup process, when all you really want is a way to get started quickly without having to be bothered with a bunch of secondary installs and updates and figuring your way through the update manager. My time is more valuable than that. Yes, the download may take a while, but again, that’s why we have BitTorrent.
By not including Mylin and the XML editor in Classic, you just made the Classic install much less inviting and useful.
July 3rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Howdy Avery, Thanks for dropping by.
I agree with you on the need for a true all-in-one. I wasted a full day downloading and building an Eclipse distro for my teams dev environment.
Erik
July 5th, 2007 at 5:34 am
I should have mentioned that if you want an Eclipse distro there are a number of organizations providing distros. Yoxos is probably the most comprehensive http://eclipsediscovery.yoxos.com/discovery/rap
July 13th, 2007 at 9:32 am
I was previously using classic 3.1 for java development. I’m wondering if I switch to europa will it be seamless (importing existing projects) and will I be missing anything that I had in classic. Guess I will give it a go & let you know…
July 13th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Looks good. I was able to open my workspace from classic 3.1 no problem. And I already noticed a few nice bug fixes in 3.3. Thanks
March 1st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Hi, well i got the same problem when i tried to download eclipse!!!
that’s why i stop by this blog…. i wonder which version is the best for J2ME apps development, actually i dont know….
i think im gonna pick the classic one…
June 13th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Take a look
i had the same issue until I saw this page.
http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/moreinfo/compare.php
June 13th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Thanks Fran… I’m still confused why Eclipse needs an Eclipse version and a Classic version. WTH?